Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

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jezzpalmer
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm
Location: Swansea

Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by jezzpalmer »

Hi,

I have an X10 which I want to link to my S6, is there a dummies guide on doing this, please?

Also, what is considered best practice regarding sensors and the expander?
Would I be right in saying it's be keep mission critical stuff, TPS, PPS, Cam, Crank, MAP (then AIT and ECT where available inputs allow) on the ECU; and use the expander inputs for other temps, wheels speeds, g sensors, oil pressure etc?

One last noddy question for now, is all configuration of the X10 done with SCal via the X10's Ethernet connection; or once it's paired with the S6 can it be done via the S6's SCal session?

Thanks,
Jezz.
pat
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Re: Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by pat »

Hiya Jezz!

The X10 and S6 are linked together via the CAN bus. You'll need to make sure that this is populated on both ends. Then when you want to connect something to a pin on the X10, you need to configure it as being on the slave in the S6's IO Config page. That's pretty much it in terms of making thing work :)

The Ethernet on the X10 can be used to update the firmware but isn't much used other than that (it is available as a PDU version, and then you could use the Ethernet to configue it but when used as an expander, pretty much all the useful info comes from the main ECU).

In terms of sensors, you'll want to make sure that you only connect sensors which are NOT engine synchronous to the X10. Things like Air Charge Temp, ALS switch etc will be fine, but things like Manifold Pressure are deprecated (but still allowed). Things that are prohibited are engine synchronisation signals such as the Crank, Phase and VVT sensors, they MUST go to the S6. Things like wheel speeds and turbo shaft speeds can go to the X10 though.

Hope this helps,

Pat.
jezzpalmer
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm
Location: Swansea

Re: Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by jezzpalmer »

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the reply, I was working on a test loom last night when you replied.
I have got the X10 and the S6 linked, and was able to assign a temp sensor to a slave input; so that's all good.

Can you advise on how best to terminate the Can bus? Should the resistors be outboard at the very ends of the bus, or are they Ok inboard?

Code: Select all

Outboard
---------------------can h------------------------------
R X10                                               S6 R
---------------------can l------------------------------

or, Inboard
---------------------can h------------------------------
X10 R                                               R S6
---------------------can l------------------------------

Before your reply I’d spent about an hour trying to get SCal to connect to the X10, if from your message I'm thinking that it wouldn't connect?
However I've tried to upgrade the firmware and that's not connecting either; though when I connect it to my laptop it does sense that the Ethernet is connected.

C:\Users\lspalmer\Downloads>"X10v1-1-5(1) (1).exe"
ProgX10, Copyright (C) Life Racing Ltd 2012
Ready to program X10 firmware release 1.1.5(1)
ERROR COMMUNICATING WITH SERVER
Press space to exit

RE the inputs, there are 6 available for speed measurement, which 6 are they, or does it not matter?

Finally, for now, I'm am currently using a Syvecs DWB Driver and was planning on using the X10 for DBW now, but I'm not entirely sure how to connect and assign it in the I/O; or what the PWM is, is it still 3800?
How I envisage it, is that I move M1 from the DBW driver to HB1(pin4) on the X10, and similarly M2 to HB2(Pin30).
The X10 Pinout document says - 'Slave1 Fuel11' is for Full Bridge1(H Bridge 1&2)
However, the list of assignable slave outputs I see say 'SLAVE OUT #xx : S1/OUTxx', not ''Slave1 Fuelxx'. Do I just choose 'SLAVE OUT #11 : S1/OUT11''?
And, do I assign it to 'Drive By Wire 1' as before, as a new calibration option has appeared in the software, 'Drive By Wire 1 Power'?

Thanks,
Jezz.
pat
Syvecs Staff - Cleaner
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Re: Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by pat »

Jez,

I think we may need to improve the X10 documentation so as to avoid confusion like this :)

CAN bus termination should be at the end of the bus. The S6 has an onboard termination resistor so you don't need to worry about that one, the X10 I am not entirely sure about... if it was just available as an expander then it would be terminated, the link saturates the bus so you wouldn't be connecting anything else to it anyway, but with it also being available as a PDU and the bus loading for a PDU being less, it could share a bus and therefore the assumption about it being at the other end of the bus from the ECU is unsafe. It is probably safest just to measure yours :) Aside from that, the termination on a CAN bus should go at the END, so in this case your wires would go to the X10 and then back out to the termination resistor after the X10, if you see what I mean :)

You will never get SCal to connect to an X10 because it is not an ECU :) When it is supplied in its PDU form you would be able to connect to it with the PDU config software, but as an expander the only real purpose for the Ethernet right now is to upgrade the firmware. This leads us onto the error you were getting with the firmware upgrade file, and it is something that we need to address in general. It did not work because it expects to talk to LifeNetServer not SNetServer, and given that you probably don't have the LifeSuite installed, that isn't going to work. We will either supply LifeNetServer or allow the firmware upgrade to also use SNetServer in the future. Most of the units in the field do not require an upgrade so it's not an issue anyway (and for those early adopters who do need a firmware upgrade, they should contact Syvecs support).

Input wise, it is the first six inputs that have the ability to measure speed, and also run in bipolar mode. All inputs can be used as 5V and also THERMISTOR mode. So, for anything you want to measure speed (be it VR, Hall or optical) such sensors should go on IN1-6, anything that doesn't need to measure speed can go on any input unless the signal itself goes negative (bipolar strain gauge ?), then they too should go on IN1-6.

DBW wise, you would need to conect your motor to HB1/2 and then reassign the DBW in the I/O Config to use one of the slave H Bridge outputs (use SLAVE OUT#11). The frequency is not so important when running the X10; the 3800Hz was something that allowed the processor on the DBW module to detect the ECU's desired duty with low latency (it then turns it into a much faster actual PWM signal). I am not certain but I suspect that when running in full bridge mode, the X10 may, like the S8, ignore the PWM frequency in the config and run at about 50kHz.

The Drive By Wire Power output is to allow the ECU to control the power feed to an external DBW module, should the vehicle have one. You will see in some of the OEM wiring diagrams that the car supplies power to the ECU in two batches, one for the main functions of the ECU and then a separate feed for the DBW. In such cases one can (if using a separate DBW driver) take control of the DBW power relay and completely shut down the power to the DBW system in the event of an error. This will not be useful when you are using an X10 or an S8 since the power is shared between the unit and its H Bridges, so by feeding them from the DBW power feed you would then lose power to the whole unit if the DBW relay tripped out.

Hope this helps,

Pat.
jezzpalmer
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm
Location: Swansea

Re: Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by jezzpalmer »

As ever that's a great reply Pat, thanks. :)

Got you regarding the termination, understood.

I'm not sure if you've seen but I'm currently in conversation with Ryan via the Syvecs support email address regarding a couple of things. Firstly, if I assign Slave 11 to the DBW output I'm told that it is an incompatible output type, indeed outputs 1-15 all report the same. Secondly I can't get the update tool to find the device; which you have just explained why that is.
I guess I could be considered an early adopter of the X10, I've had it since April 2013, but for one reason or another only just taken it out of the box and started to look at it.

Could it be that if I can get the device upgraded, then the DBW output assignment will work?
Can I get the relevant server software, or is it a return to base job?
I've just tried the demo version of the Life software from their site, but the lifeserver doesn't bind to any interfaces (I'm assuming because its the demo version?); so it doesn't find the X10 when the update tool is ran. The tool does connect to the server though.

I typed this last night, but the site went down before I could submit it.
I've mailed Ryan this morning RE the LifeNetServer, so hopefully we'll get this fixed one way or another. :)

Cheers,
Jezz.
jezzpalmer
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm
Location: Swansea

Re: Linking X10 to S6, and other queries.

Post by jezzpalmer »

All sorted now, thanks to Pat & Ryan for their help. 8-)
X10 is flashed, DBW output is happily assigned in I/O, and DBW is working. :)

Cheers,
Jezz.
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