Hi folks. As a bit of background I have a Nissan Skyline R32GTR track car to which I intend to fit an S6GP. At the moment I'm gathering together sensors for the install. I'll be replacing the standard sensors (water temp, oil pressure etc) with either new standard items (or swapping to more robust ones i.e. Bosch Motorsport).
The sensors I have identified that I wish to connect are:-
Oil Temperature
Oil Pressure
Fuel Temperature
Fuel Pressure
Water Temperature
Water Pressure
Manifold Pressure(MAP)
Barometric Pressure
Charge Air Temperature
Ambient Air Temperature
Crank Angle
Cam Angle
Wheel Speed
Wideband Lambda
knock
EGT
Throttle Position
Now thats ovbiously 17 items. The S6 specs say that it has 16 inputs....I notice that it has a dedicated thermocouple input so that takes care of EGT which leaves 16. Knock can be connected to the dedicated input so thats another taken out of the equation. Lambda WAS to have been taken care of by a WBo2 2C0B Wideband kit with a 5V output (as I would prefer to run an LSU sensor!). Seeing as I'm a bit tight on inputs I was considering going down the L2H2 route instead and utilising the S6's onboard controller. This would, in theory, remove the need for utilising another 5V input which would mean I was connecting 15 sensors plus a thermocouple plus an L2H2. Looking at the pinout for the S6, it appears (to me at least) that the L2H2 control circuit uses one of the 16 inputs? Is this correct or is it 16 inputs PLUS a wideband control input PLUS a thermocouple PLUS a knock????
At some point in the future I intend to install a turbo shaft speed sensor but TBH, it would appear that I'm going to be struggling for inputs. Another thing is that I see that, of the 16 inputs,
- 4 are 5V/bipolar, sensor/sync/speed, programmable trigger voltages
- 4 are 5V/Thermistor, sensor/sync/speed, fixed trigger voltages
- 4 are 5V sensor input
- 4 are Thermistor sensor input
I suppose the bottom line is, can someone with a bit of knowledge of the unit and its inputs tell me if I CAN indeed connect alll the sensors I would like to? Are there going to be issues and would an S8, with its extra inputs be the better way forward??
Sensondly, the GTR has ABS rings on all 4 wheels. Clearly I'm now a bit tight on inputs so would be looking to use only one of the driven wheels. My question is, can the S6 read the ABS sensor input directly or does it need a signal conditioner??
TT
Sensors, inputs and ABS
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Hi,
The onboard lambda amp uses a dedicated amplifier and does not use up one of the 16 other inputs, so you'll still have those to use. If you stick with your Bosch, then you *will* need to use one of the 16. As you say, EGT and knock have dedicated inputs.
Simple answer is that you will be able to use all of those sensors as it only uses 14 inputs. But...
You may need to add air con demand as an input and maybe a traction control switch? And CAL switch unless you're planning to use a Toucan?
So something may have to give. The sensors on there that are uncommon, at least based on what the standard loom adapter provide, are barometric pressure (if this car is UK based you probably don't really need that?) and fuel temperature.
A standard Supra loom adapter allows for 2 ABS sensors (FL and FR), but you do need to use signal conditioners as I understand it - best wait until Ryan sees this as he will know for sure
The price difference between an S8 and S6 is not inconsiderable, but obviously the S8 is way more flexible/powerful. What is the intended use of the car, as that may also influence the S8 vs S6 decision.
The onboard lambda amp uses a dedicated amplifier and does not use up one of the 16 other inputs, so you'll still have those to use. If you stick with your Bosch, then you *will* need to use one of the 16. As you say, EGT and knock have dedicated inputs.
Simple answer is that you will be able to use all of those sensors as it only uses 14 inputs. But...
You may need to add air con demand as an input and maybe a traction control switch? And CAL switch unless you're planning to use a Toucan?
So something may have to give. The sensors on there that are uncommon, at least based on what the standard loom adapter provide, are barometric pressure (if this car is UK based you probably don't really need that?) and fuel temperature.
A standard Supra loom adapter allows for 2 ABS sensors (FL and FR), but you do need to use signal conditioners as I understand it - best wait until Ryan sees this as he will know for sure
The price difference between an S8 and S6 is not inconsiderable, but obviously the S8 is way more flexible/powerful. What is the intended use of the car, as that may also influence the S8 vs S6 decision.
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tarmac terror
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:30 pm
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Hi Tim, thanks for the reply....
The car is track ONLY so no air-con, ABS etc. To be honest, my goal is to have as many sensor inputs into the ECU as possible and having had a think last night after I posted I would ideally like to have all the above sensors (Oil Temperature,Oil Pressure,Fuel Temperature,Fuel Pressure,Water Temperature,Water Pressure,Manifold Pressure(MAP),Barometric Pressure,Charge Air Temperature,Ambient Air Temperature,Crank Angle,Cam Angle,Wideband Lambda,knock x 2,EGT,Throttle Position) PLUS
Steering angle
4 Wheel speed inputs (1 each corner)
Turbo shaft speed
suspension travel pot's
My intention is to hook the ECU up to my Race Technology Dash 2 and log all parameters in my DL1 Logger. The way I see it is that the more data you have, the more you can do with it!!!
I'm just not overly convinced now (after thinking about it) that a std S6 will provide enough inputs. I read a post somewhere about diasy-chaining 2 S6's to provide the extra inputs but it would be nice to perhaps develop an input expander so as to be able to plug in extra inputs. Something akin to the AIM Channel Expander..
If the S6 doesnt provide the inputs then I'm going to seriously have to consider the S8. Unfortunately this then puts me in a different part of the market and opens up yet more choices such as Motec, EFI Technology etc.
TT
The car is track ONLY so no air-con, ABS etc. To be honest, my goal is to have as many sensor inputs into the ECU as possible and having had a think last night after I posted I would ideally like to have all the above sensors (Oil Temperature,Oil Pressure,Fuel Temperature,Fuel Pressure,Water Temperature,Water Pressure,Manifold Pressure(MAP),Barometric Pressure,Charge Air Temperature,Ambient Air Temperature,Crank Angle,Cam Angle,Wideband Lambda,knock x 2,EGT,Throttle Position) PLUS
Steering angle
4 Wheel speed inputs (1 each corner)
Turbo shaft speed
suspension travel pot's
My intention is to hook the ECU up to my Race Technology Dash 2 and log all parameters in my DL1 Logger. The way I see it is that the more data you have, the more you can do with it!!!
I'm just not overly convinced now (after thinking about it) that a std S6 will provide enough inputs. I read a post somewhere about diasy-chaining 2 S6's to provide the extra inputs but it would be nice to perhaps develop an input expander so as to be able to plug in extra inputs. Something akin to the AIM Channel Expander..
If the S6 doesnt provide the inputs then I'm going to seriously have to consider the S8. Unfortunately this then puts me in a different part of the market and opens up yet more choices such as Motec, EFI Technology etc.
TT
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Syvecs itself can log all those parameters of course...but it does sound like S8 territory.
Can I ask what the timescale is for your project?
Can I ask what the timescale is for your project?
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tarmac terror
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:30 pm
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Hi Tim, at the moment I'm gathering sensors together. I reckon I'll be in a position to purchase the unit itself by Dec/Jan.
Im torn at the moment as things like Motec/Pectel etc are nwo serious competitors to the S8 in terms of functions and price.
Looks like I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about whats going to fulfill my needs...
Im torn at the moment as things like Motec/Pectel etc are nwo serious competitors to the S8 in terms of functions and price.
Looks like I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about whats going to fulfill my needs...
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Hitarmac terror wrote:Hi folks. As a bit of background I have a Nissan Skyline R32GTR track car to which I intend to fit an S6GP. At the moment I'm gathering together sensors for the install. I'll be replacing the standard sensors (water temp, oil pressure etc) with either new standard items (or swapping to more robust ones i.e. Bosch Motorsport).
The sensors I have identified that I wish to connect are:-
Oil Temperature
Oil Pressure
Fuel Temperature
Fuel Pressure
Water Temperature
Water Pressure
Manifold Pressure(MAP)
Barometric Pressure
Charge Air Temperature
Ambient Air Temperature
Crank Angle
Cam Angle
Wheel Speed
Wideband Lambda
knock
EGT
Throttle Position
Now thats ovbiously 17 items. The S6 specs say that it has 16 inputs....I notice that it has a dedicated thermocouple input so that takes care of EGT which leaves 16. Knock can be connected to the dedicated input so thats another taken out of the equation. Lambda WAS to have been taken care of by a WBo2 2C0B Wideband kit with a 5V output (as I would prefer to run an LSU sensor!). Seeing as I'm a bit tight on inputs I was considering going down the L2H2 route instead and utilising the S6's onboard controller. This would, in theory, remove the need for utilising another 5V input which would mean I was connecting 15 sensors plus a thermocouple plus an L2H2. Looking at the pinout for the S6, it appears (to me at least) that the L2H2 control circuit uses one of the 16 inputs? Is this correct or is it 16 inputs PLUS a wideband control input PLUS a thermocouple PLUS a knock????
At some point in the future I intend to install a turbo shaft speed sensor but TBH, it would appear that I'm going to be struggling for inputs. Another thing is that I see that, of the 16 inputs,
- 4 are 5V/bipolar, sensor/sync/speed, programmable trigger voltages
- 4 are 5V/Thermistor, sensor/sync/speed, fixed trigger voltages
- 4 are 5V sensor input
- 4 are Thermistor sensor input
I suppose the bottom line is, can someone with a bit of knowledge of the unit and its inputs tell me if I CAN indeed connect alll the sensors I would like to? Are there going to be issues and would an S8, with its extra inputs be the better way forward??
Sensondly, the GTR has ABS rings on all 4 wheels. Clearly I'm now a bit tight on inputs so would be looking to use only one of the driven wheels. My question is, can the S6 read the ABS sensor input directly or does it need a signal conditioner??
TT
Why would you want to go down the route of fitting an external unit for the lambda circuit and use the LSU sensor over the L2H2 NTK sensors?
In Answer to your questions....
You can indeed fit 95% of the sensors you would like but i would recommend junking the Baro input (unless you are planning on doing some hill climbs around europe) for a Rotary Pot Calibration SW. For changing boost, ignition map, antilag etc on the fly..... With the Syvecs control strategies a baro is really not needed for any of the UK tracks.
See attached a example pinout sheet i have done for you and also see the below link on the S6GP which explains the inputs more.
For wheel speeds and VR Crank and cam sensors the bi polar inputs are needed..... if you are using the CAS then you can use Uniploar inputs.
If you want to upgrade to use a trigger wheel on the crank of your RB26 then you will need to use one of the Biploar (AB) inputs for that and move 2x of a pair of wheel speeds to Unipolar inputs. with a Syvecs waveform convertor. (£25) each
- Attachments
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- R32-R33GTR Skyline EXAMPLE Pinouts.xls
- (71.5 KiB) Downloaded 1461 times
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Everything on the S8 comes enabled.. Knock control, lambda, torque control, DBW, Traction control, Onboard datalogging, Etctarmac terror wrote:Hi Tim, at the moment I'm gathering sensors together. I reckon I'll be in a position to purchase the unit itself by Dec/Jan.
Im torn at the moment as things like Motec/Pectel etc are nwo serious competitors to the S8 in terms of functions and price.
Looks like I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about whats going to fulfill my needs...
If you can get a pectel/motec at the same build level with all the above features enabled for same price i will be very surprised.
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
The Pectel and Motec will not compete on price, even though Motec has dropped their prices it seems.
Motec M800 = £2095
1mb Datalogging £199.75 (S8 comes with 8mb)
Advanced functions £295
DBW Upgrade £262
Single lambda £394
Dual lambda £189
Cam contol £236
Knock Module £796
UTC £176.25 (because you need to by the interface to map it)
Total £4642.75+vat
Even at trade you're going to get the Syvecs for less.
The motec would also need 2x EGT amps, although I realise it might not need the DBW and cam control upgrades.
I would also say that depending on the wider application in the car, there can be a sound argument for MoTeC but those reasons I hope will diminish as further upgrades appear on the S8 to allow better interoperability with other systems.
Motec M800 = £2095
1mb Datalogging £199.75 (S8 comes with 8mb)
Advanced functions £295
DBW Upgrade £262
Single lambda £394
Dual lambda £189
Cam contol £236
Knock Module £796
UTC £176.25 (because you need to by the interface to map it)
Total £4642.75+vat
Even at trade you're going to get the Syvecs for less.
The motec would also need 2x EGT amps, although I realise it might not need the DBW and cam control upgrades.
I would also say that depending on the wider application in the car, there can be a sound argument for MoTeC but those reasons I hope will diminish as further upgrades appear on the S8 to allow better interoperability with other systems.
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
I would also agree though an S6 would do the job in this case. Looking at Ryan's pinout, you need to add something extra for the TPS and you can't just connect the TPS sensor to the 4wd system. I have had a few RB26s running on s6 and a few on S8.
Re: Sensors, inputs and ABS
Hello,Ryan.g wrote: See attached a example pinout sheet i have done for you and also see the below link on the S6GP which explains the inputs more.
I started to built in a S6GP into a Lancer EVO VI TME, and it would be helpful if we could make a similar pinout sheet which could be used for wiring of EVO VI-Syvecs ecu.
Thank you in advanced.
Regards
Laci