S8 on R34 gtr issue

[XKLABA 1]

Hello, 1st post

I have just fitted an S8 to my JDM spec 2001 R34 GTR, unfortunately I can not get it to fire, I have installed the latest firmware and the base map provided for my setup

it has a 36-1 trigger wheel with a Honeywell GT101 hall sensor and the factory Cas for phase sync

scope trace

scope trace 5.txt

scope trace

(217.4 KiB) Downloaded 1863 times

calibration file

Martin hills base - v1.403.SC

base map cal

(425.59 KiB) Downloaded 1796 times

any help will be much appreciated

[pavlo]

A honeywell gt101 sensor is not fast enough to use with a 36-1 wheel.

I also suspect your timing setup is not set up for the 36-1 wheel and certainly not to use the standard phase for the cas.

If you want this sorting out, I can do it, but I would need to get on the car ideally to be sure that it's right. I am happy to do this and let your mapper get on with doing the rest.

[pavlo]

Phase setup looks like it could be right, it's a long time since I did that.

crank sensor setup is not right.

base angle unknown, is it a Ross one?

You ideally need to change the crank sensor to a reluctor sensor, or get a Chevy ls7 hall sensor if you want to keep it on a hall sensor (they run 60-2 up to 7500rpm no problem).

Or you can grind off a load of teeth from the crank trigger and turn it into a 18-1 wheel, but even that might be marginal on a GT1 if you want to rev to 9000rpm.

[pavlo]

MOdified cal to try for now, I doubt it will fix it but the thing needs looking at in more detail.

What injectors and throttle setup do you have?

Do you have the Factory 4wd still in place? If so you will need to add something to the loom adaptor otherwise it will not work.

[XKLABA 1]

A honeywell gt101 sensor is not fast enough to use with a 36-1 wheel.
I also suspect your timing setup is not set up for the 36-1 wheel and certainly not to use the standard phase for the cas.

If you want this sorting out, I can do it, but I would need to get on the car ideally to be sure that it's right. I am happy to do this and let your mapper get on with doing the rest.

Hi Pavlo, thank you for your replies, gives me a good idea of what I need to get done

I suspected the sesnor wasn't fast enough as I noticed it missed a tooth on the trace scope, will look at the LS7 sensor you mentioned

I'm in Sydney Australia otherwise you would be more then welcome to get hold of it

Phase setup looks like it could be right, it's a long time since I did that.

crank sensor setup is not right.

base angle unknown, is it a Ross one?

You ideally need to change the crank sensor to a reluctor sensor, or get a Chevy ls7 hall sensor if you want to keep it on a hall sensor (they run 60-2 up to 7500rpm no problem).

Or you can grind off a load of teeth from the crank trigger and turn it into a 18-1 wheel, but even that might be marginal on a GT1 if you want to rev to 9000rpm.

It is standard CAS and yeah the Ross setup which came with balancer-wheel-sensor, base angle I estimated at 85deg ATDC, and the 3 guys that designed it can't/won't tell me the exact base angle

grinding teeth to 18-1 or even 12-1 or replacing the whole setup is not out of the question, we are have all sorts of issues with the Ross balancers down here throwing P/S belts at mid to high RPM

MOdified cal to try for now, I doubt it will fix it but the thing needs looking at in more detail.

What injectors and throttle setup do you have?

Do you have the Factory 4wd still in place? If so you will need to add something to the loom adaptor otherwise it will not work.

Ok thank you I will give it ago, even if it allows me to start the car so I car get a quick tune to get it home and go through want you have said

ID1300s with standard throttle bodies

yeah factory 4WD in place, the guy that is going to tune it is a ViPec dealer and this is an issue the Vipec has so he has a splitter/amplifier box he makes which will have to be put in also

[pavlo]

Aaah yes the Ross people! They are very nice but the people that design the parts don't do ECUs so they don't really know.

The reference tooth is a few teeth after the gap remember, but you should get a timing light on it to double check.

I have a much better base map than the one you have been provided with which is actually derived from a car that I had set up some years ago. It has a single throttle body so the 4d mapping for throttle is way out for what you want to do on individual throttles. It also has non standard I/O config due to some errors I made in the loom adaptor! So for example cylinder 5 is assigned to injector 6 and cylinder 6 is assigned to injector 8. Unless yours is wired like that they will need to be fixed.Are you using a lambdas sensor on Lambda 2 or is connected to Lambda 1?

On the sync scope the red vertical lines show where it has picked up a tooth. You can try those revised crank sensor settings to just check it out. but I think you will need to check the ref angle with the light.

[XKLABA 1]

Aaah yes the Ross people! They are very nice but the people that design the parts don't do ECUs so they don't really know.

The reference tooth is a few teeth after the gap remember, but you should get a timing light on it to double check.

I have a much better base map than the one you have been provided with which is actually derived from a car that I had set up some years ago. It has a single throttle body so the 4d mapping for throttle is way out for what you want to do on individual throttles. It also has non standard I/O config due to some errors I made in the loom adaptor! So for example cylinder 5 is assigned to injector 6 and cylinder 6 is assigned to injector 8. Unless yours is wired like that they will need to be fixed.Are you using a lambdas sensor on Lambda 2 or is connected to Lambda 1?

On the sync scope the red vertical lines show where it has picked up a tooth. You can try those revised crank sensor settings to just check it out. but I think you will need to check the ref angle with the light.

haha yeah that's actually funny, Ross didn't design it it was a collaboration between 3 companies, Morristech ( who make computers ), Unigroup ( who is a well known RB tuning company ) and Ross ( who just manufactured them and made them fit there already made harmonic balances ), the first two I don't think much of but all 3 are local to me

Ok that I did not know i thought the missing tooth was the reference tooth, the is the problem we are having is there is no RPM registering and nothing coming from the coils to trigger a timing light if we can get it to fire we can reset the rest

I have had to move a few pins to suit the patch loom but all the inj ign wires are in the correct places, no lambdas yet something I am going to setup later

I will try that on Monday thank you, which tooth will I need to set as the ref angle to get the 720 sync right in relation to the standard CAS on this setup or would a new CAS wheel with single tooth/hole be better, also would be able to give me a part No for the LS7 sensor or is there a better one to get

[XKLABA 1]

Ok so I have tried that cal setting and got this, looks better to me thank you, but I operate an excavator for a living so what do you think ?

scope trace zen.txt

new scope trace

(224.62 KiB) Downloaded 1683 times

still do not have a RPM registering and no spark yet, where does the computer get the RPM from, is it from the crank sensor ?
and if so how would I have to modify the cal for it to register ?

[pavlo]

Just to confirm, I presume your patch loom is injector 1 to output 1 etc? And that you've done that for all 6? The base map is incorrect as it has a bit of an injector mixup (that matches the same mixup on the patch loom).

As far as the RPM, it gets that from the crank sensor.

[pavlo]

Oh and I'm trying to get to the bottom of why it's not synching up for you! I will have it sorted soon enough I'm sure, it will also help to get some datalogs during cranking but we will need to make some temporary changes to the cal so it logs pretty much all the time.