Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

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Scottyp1987
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by Scottyp1987 »

Hello,

Im currently having issues with my supra, where it wont start. Ive had a syvecs s6 plus and a full DBW setup installed by garage whifbitz last year.

The DBW throttle is a Porsche one.

My issue started the other week when i went to start my car for the first time since November. The battery was dead and wouldnt charge. So i replaced the battery terminals so i could fit a normal sized battery in there. Was a tiny jap battery before. Ive not been able to get the car started properly since.
I get a dbw position fault. Ive looked at the tps lineartys both look correct. Ive checked 12v and 5v supply to the throttle body all ok. Both grounds are ok. The two outputs give me a reading that i would expect on the software.

The position fault seems to be because the minimum crank position is 20% but the dbw unit sits closed. I can get rid of the error by changing the alarm limit but obviously still doesnt start. If i disable dbw when the ignition is on. Then i can push it in slightly approx 4% and the car starts and idles but moving the accelerator pedal does nothing. I checked the linearty of the pedal position sensor and that didnt look too bad either.

I also switched the 12v supply and ground over for the dbw throttle and when i key on, the throttle then goes to 100% and tps reads the same.

So im at the end of my limit knowledge on what to do next.

I have also tried reprogramming with the map that was on there from last year but nothing changed.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by stevieturbo »

There is no 12v supply to the TB.

There will be a supply that can go either way +/-12v which is PWM'd...ie the H Bridge that drives the motor open or closed. Dont be randomly changing wiring if the setup had been working before or you may cause damage.

Both grounds are ok....what grounds and where ?

You say you have a DBW error. Post a screenshot of this.
So is the blade moving in relation to the pedal ? ( ensure it's activated with engine off )

No idea what you're meaning by lineartys...there is no such term used.

Check both PPS1/2 track as expected, and also TPS1/2 if you can get the blade to move.

Whilst unlikely a corrupt map....do you have a copy of the last working map/calibration that was in the car, to reload and try ?
Scottyp1987
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by Scottyp1987 »

Thanks for your reply, see my comments next to yours.

There is no 12v supply to the TB. - On one of the pins to the TB there is a 12V reading when the ignition is switched on, but i get what you mean in your next comment.

There will be a supply that can go either way +/-12v which is PWM'd...ie the H Bridge that drives the motor open or closed. Don't be randomly changing wiring if the setup had been working before or you may cause damage. - I wasn't 100% sure about h Bridge before but i did some reading last night to understand it a bit better. The only reason i changed the the two wires over that feed the motor was to see if the TB blade actually opened. Which it did with the wires swapped over, and it read 99.8% on TPS on the syvecs software. I then swapped them back.

Both grounds are ok....what grounds and where ? Ill double check the pins, but there were 2 pins on the TB connector that went to ground.

You say you have a DBW error. Post a screenshot of this. - I cant get it to upload but it says: Outputs - Drive by wire 1 - Positioning failure.

So is the blade moving in relation to the pedal ? ( ensure it's activated with engine off ) It is active with engine off, but does not move at all with push the pedal.

No idea what you're meaning by lineartys...there is no such term used. - apologies, my terminology is not correct. i meant the sensor Linearisation.

Check both PPS1/2 track as expected, and also TPS1/2 if you can get the blade to move. I could not get the blade to move with the pedal so i turned DBW to inactive when engine stopped and checked it manually by pushing the TB blade open. I checked the PPS sensor also which looked ok.

Whilst unlikely a corrupt map....do you have a copy of the last working map/calibration that was in the car, to reload and try - Yes i have tried that also and made no difference.

I can see why im getting the error because the minimum target in crank is set at 20% but the TB blade does not move to 20%. It just goes fully closed and im not able to move it at all by had or pedal.
I can make the permanent error message go away by changing the Acceptable opening error margin to above 20% (obviously) or if i change the DBW to disabled when engine stopped.
If i manually open the throttle to approx 4% my car will start fine and idle, rev up a bit by pushing the TB blade in.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by stevieturbo »

Clearly there must be an issue with one of the TPS or PPS inputs otherwise there wouldnt be a problem.

One of the tracks must not be reading as expected.

You do not and should not need to be mucking with wiring at this stage.

Just look at TPS1A and TPS1B, and PPS1A and PPS1B through their ranges of travel, and see which one is not reading correctly.

These pairs should be the same as their counterpart throughout the range of motion.
Scottyp1987
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by Scottyp1987 »

I have been told this before also, but i cant see anything wrong with them

TPS1A and B are opposites to each other. While one increases the other decreases. At throttle closed they read 0% and have the correct voltages applied to that point, and at 100%. I also get no faults ON for those sensors.

PPS1A and B are similar but B is set to part of the range instead of the whole range. Which is also how the Syvecs DBW tutorial Video says to set it and how it was working previously. but again, both position sensors agree with each other and i get no fault ON for these either.

No matter what i try the motor will not turn with the pedal being pressed down, or do anything other than just close on igntoin on.

Which was why i though maybe there was a fault with the Motor or something and changed the wires over briefly just to see it actually work, but i agree i should not need to alter the wiring to resolve this issue.

I am still totally stumped at why this is not working. Might have to send it to a syvecs dealer garage to get investigated at this rate.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by stevieturbo »

TPS 1A and B are not opposites.

The raw voltage inputs may be opposites, but the correctly scaled linearisation output in % is just that. A 0-100% scaling.

Likewise PPS.

Hence why I said to check them.
Scottyp1987
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by Scottyp1987 »

Ok. The actual output readings in % is the same
stevieturbo
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by stevieturbo »

So throughout the range of travel of both blade and pedal...these readings are matching pairs ?

If so, there should not be a fault, unless whatever is actually driving the blade is the issue, whether wiring, the motor, the h-bridge.
Scottyp1987
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by Scottyp1987 »

This is exactly where i am at with it! lol

Wiring all checks out (as far as im concerned). and me swapping over the wires previously was to check the motor function and it does actually work. So im down to thinking possible H bridge fault.
Not sure how to test the H bridge though, think i would need an oscilloscope which i can get hold of from work, or if i could move it to a different H Bridge as there doesn't look to be anything assigned to the other H bridge channels.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Supra with syvecs s6 plus and porsche DBW throttle issue

Post by stevieturbo »

I'd think even a simple voltmeter would give info. Although you'd need to disable any safeties on the dbw to allow it to test without the blade moving. But I think you said the blade can move if you change some safety settings ?

I'd be concerned about swapping to another h bridge output on the blade motor itself without finding out what's wrong, in case it might cause harm again

But a simple open closed test should see a voltage change from + to - or visa versa as it travels. Depends on meter, but yes a scope would be best. ( Actual voltage will not change as it's always an off/on 12 in some shape or form though, but on a simple meter it may appear as a change )
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