Secondary injectors setup

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HondaDrag
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:12 pm

Secondary injectors setup

Post by HondaDrag »

Hi, I installed another set of injectors to a total of 8 2200cc injectors on a 4 cylinder turbocharged drag engine and configured the IO configuration.
Now how do the maps secondary load injection maps and secondary load injection time blend work exactely as i am confused abit.
Since one of the maps is tps based and the other MAP but as percentage.
Please can you clarify.
Can i configure them as such that at a certain duty cycle i start the secondarys?
Thanks alot for help
RICE RACING
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by RICE RACING »

I set up a word document on how to do this correctly after seeing quite a few people stuff this up (specially when using different primary and secondary injectors). Though its all explained well under F1 help, after you read that if you still are unsure then pm/email me and I will pass it on.
I think? you may be getting confused with the Secondary Load Injection Time & Blend maps under the Run Mode Fueling tab? If so this is a secondary load source and not talking about secondary fuel injectors ;) I see how you got that confused though!

So clearing up the "TPS and the other is MAP" mis understanding its just simply this below.....

Obviously you have to assign the extra injectors in your I/O, 2 rotor version below for example
Image

Being two sets of 4 x 2200cc injectors your case is simple.
Secondary Injector Scaling 2200/2200 = 1
Fuel Split is defined as Primary/(Primary+Secondary) 2200/(2200+2200) = 0.50 (50%)

So you can blend in the map as such
Image

Under Corrections
set up your
Secondary Injector Hold Time Minimum

Secondary Injector Opening Time-f(vbat) < this you can SA cntrl C ( short cut for Select,All, control key+Copy) from the Primary Injector Opening Time-f(vbat) table since you are using the same injectors :D
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Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
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stevieturbo
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by stevieturbo »

Basically as above.

If you wanted, you could change the blend start slightly higher than 1000mbar ( or anywhere you wanted really )

0% in the table would be primaries only.
50% in table will be even split over both
100% in the table would be secondaries only
HondaDrag
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by HondaDrag »

Ok, now all make sense, Thanks Rice racing great post :)
So the maps i mentioned are not used in my case.
The injector split 1 map is used to command when they start to inject but still the overall fueling are from the Base Injection time 1,2..etc maps..
And thanks to Stevie_turbo also for more clarification and yes on the injector split i think i will start at 200kpa onwards.

One question what are Primary/Secondary Injector Hold Time Minimun used for?

Thanks alot.
RICE RACING
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by RICE RACING »

Answered below
HondaDrag wrote:Ok, now all make sense, Thanks Rice racing great post :)
So the maps i mentioned are not used in my case.
*Correct*
The injector split 1 map is used to command when they start to inject but still the overall fueling are from the Base Injection time 1,2..etc maps..
*Yes, when they start and what proportion is sent to each, make them equal as defined by the ratio*
And thanks to Stevie_turbo also for more clarification and yes on the injector split i think i will start at 200kpa onwards.
*You can start them as low as is defined by the minimum open time for the secondary and primary, I have software that shows all this and effect on 'effective' base fuel map, more correctly 'fuel final' so can easily show you how it will work.I start them earlier and lower down for various reasons I'll tell you in private :geek:

One question what are Primary/Secondary Injector Hold Time Minimun used for?
*As it states, minimum time for them to work send me an email and I will explain in depth if you like or just change your cal and you can see the changes to make it easier for you*

Thanks alot.
http://www.riceracing.com.au
https://www.youtube.com/riceracingdonmega
Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
Water Injection Specialist
ciphermonk
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by ciphermonk »

In the situation where you are switching from 550cc secondary injectors to 1000cc secondary injectors, what changes need to be made in the calibration other than Secondary Injector Opening Time to compensate for the larger injectors?

Been looking through the calibration trying to find out if there's anywhere else that injectors are characterized.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by stevieturbo »

ciphermonk wrote:In the situation where you are switching from 550cc secondary injectors to 1000cc secondary injectors, what changes need to be made in the calibration other than Secondary Injector Opening Time to compensate for the larger injectors?

Been looking through the calibration trying to find out if there's anywhere else that injectors are characterized.
Change the ratio of primary to secondary injector size, secondary multiplier.

So if this had been 1, ie primary and secondary were same size before, change this value to approx 0.5 as the primaries are now half the size of the secondary.

And obviously injector dead times etc etc and usual tuning stuff incl whatever transition and split you may want the secondaries to be doing.

But that should be a close starting point.
ciphermonk
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by ciphermonk »

stevieturbo wrote:
ciphermonk wrote:In the situation where you are switching from 550cc secondary injectors to 1000cc secondary injectors, what changes need to be made in the calibration other than Secondary Injector Opening Time to compensate for the larger injectors?

Been looking through the calibration trying to find out if there's anywhere else that injectors are characterized.
Change the ratio of primary to secondary injector size, secondary multiplier.

So if this had been 1, ie primary and secondary were same size before, change this value to approx 0.5 as the primaries are now half the size of the secondary.

And obviously injector dead times etc etc and usual tuning stuff incl whatever transition and split you may want the secondaries to be doing.

But that should be a close starting point.
Thank you Stevie.

Right now the value is set to 1.2 which seems low considering that the direct injectors are in the neighborhood of 1200cc.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by stevieturbo »

ciphermonk wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:
ciphermonk wrote:In the situation where you are switching from 550cc secondary injectors to 1000cc secondary injectors, what changes need to be made in the calibration other than Secondary Injector Opening Time to compensate for the larger injectors?

Been looking through the calibration trying to find out if there's anywhere else that injectors are characterized.
Change the ratio of primary to secondary injector size, secondary multiplier.

So if this had been 1, ie primary and secondary were same size before, change this value to approx 0.5 as the primaries are now half the size of the secondary.

And obviously injector dead times etc etc and usual tuning stuff incl whatever transition and split you may want the secondaries to be doing.

But that should be a close starting point.
Thank you Stevie.

Right now the value is set to 1.2 which seems low considering that the direct injectors are in the neighborhood of 1200cc.
So you had 1200cc primaries and 550cc secondaries before ?

I guess you could try and use a value that would minimise re-tuning, but it would be better for the numbers to make sense with regards the actual sizes used.
You'll need to completely go over the fuel table tuning again
ciphermonk
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:47 pm

Re: Secondary injectors setup

Post by ciphermonk »

For those of you that are blending DI and Port injection in a turbocharged application, what is the maximum that you bring in the port injectors in high load areas?
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