Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Trickster
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by Trickster »

Having a good idea is one thing. Actually doing it is always not so easy. I have been trying to think of ways to free up inputs on the S6. I feel like I am actually wasting inputs with basic things rather than essential engine inputs. For instance.
Cal switch
TC switch
Rolling boost switch
Blip/cut request

I would actually also like a ALS switch and a launch control switch.

I know you can develop varieties just using the Cal switch alone and having certain features for each Cal selection, but it would be nice to have full control over each with rotary switches and on/off switches.

I'm sure it is easier with cars that have canbus already and you can assign various buttons already in the vehicle however for people like myself it's a case of making something to work

My idea is a cockpit expander, keeping it simple and therefore hopefully cheap.
It would have say 10 inputs purely for switches and a canbus interface, preset to just work on the syvecs rather than be over customisable.

Then instead of using up inputs on the ecu you simply run a canbus pair to the cockpit, and wire all your calibration switches, pedal switches, pit limiter switches etc

Then having essential engine inputs direct into the ecu

Graeme
MR2 Turbo 5sgte 750hp 527ft/lb Syvecs S6
stevieturbo
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by stevieturbo »

You are kinda wasting inputs.

Dont think you can distinguish launch settings from Cal on an S6 anyway...so no issue there.

TC you can.

With a speed input, there really is no need for a launch off/on switch...just leave it always on.

Blip/cut are distinct features and as such require dedicated inputs

Likewise ALS...no real need for a separate off/on when you have up to 12 Cal positions available anyway

is it just more buttons for the sake of having buttons ?

If you got a normal expander you could isolate some of the things you wanted via that, although no it isnt overly cheap. I'm sure it would be possible for someone to build an expander for inputs only as you describe though, or if there were some units already on the market that were fully configurable, you might be able to make them work...although as the S6 seems to use an odd 1.33m/bit canbus speed that can make it a bit more awkward compared to some other models.
Trickster
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by Trickster »

Fair points Steve

Its not about having buttons for the sake of having them, I am quite a minimalist really, however I do like having the benefits of as many features of the ecu as I can, it's an expensive bit of kit at the end of the day.

I currently use 8 cal positions, and a TC switch as I prefer to be able to adjust my traction control amount. I would prefer to have adjustable ALS settings also.

Having 12 calibrations of various settings of boost, ALS and traction control are not easy to remember, but not impossible. I just thought some people would like to have full control over ALS, TC and any other functions they run over their fixed calibrations with regards to boost etc. Maybe that's just me.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy and can adjust enough for what I have, I am just always adjusting my car and messing around, I'd like to have some more engine sensors for info and increased protection without going for an S8 or an X10, and I thought of off loading basic inputs then expanding on that idea of you are already offloading them wasn't a bad idea. There are alot of inputs you can add for various functions after all, including pedal position sensors etc.

Anyway, it was just an idea haha

Graeme
MR2 Turbo 5sgte 750hp 527ft/lb Syvecs S6
stevieturbo
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by stevieturbo »

I dont think you can divorce the ALS Cal's on an S6 either anyway, so there isnt an option for a switch like that either.

It is a little awkward combining everything to single cal positions on the multi switch, but at the same time it's good because it does use only a single input.

You would only be adding pedal position if you were going DBW...but then that requires 4 inputs to do correctly and then a suitable output. Or Tim's expander can cover all of that.

Obviously you can do a lot with add ons to a base ecu, but at some point upgrading to a higher model is just inevitable.

AEM offer a 22 channel CAN sensor module...but it doesnt do 1.33mbit, so doubt it would be any use on an S6 anyway.

Although if you could figure out all the CAN stuff and how they talk to each other, it might work for other models. That stuff might come easy to some people...and rather difficult for others ! lol
Trickster
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by Trickster »

I didnt realise you couldnt divorce the ALS calibrations

I still think a simple can bus expander would be a good thing, the X10 is an awesome bit of kit, but its pretty expesnive and it would be nice if there was a mid way product with only inputs for basic expansion.

I understand if there isnt the demand there is no point, im just surprised there are no electronics wizards can that make a can interface with a 5 volt rail and a bunch of inputs

Graeme
MR2 Turbo 5sgte 750hp 527ft/lb Syvecs S6
stevieturbo
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by stevieturbo »

Trickster wrote:I didnt realise you couldnt divorce the ALS calibrations

I still think a simple can bus expander would be a good thing, the X10 is an awesome bit of kit, but its pretty expesnive and it would be nice if there was a mid way product with only inputs for basic expansion.

I understand if there isnt the demand there is no point, im just surprised there are no electronics wizards can that make a can interface with a 5 volt rail and a bunch of inputs

Graeme
There is...it's called an X10 lol and it also has outputs

Or Tim's MEU expander, although it has 4 inputs and some outputs.

No doubt an aurduino or something like that could be built to do what you want if you had the knowledge
stevieturbo
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by stevieturbo »

Wont do an S6, but....4 channels not too expensive ? Looks to be only 0.5m or 1.0mb

https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/a ... interface/

or maybe this ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312097351500?ul_noapp=true
TimH
JT Innovations
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:51 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by TimH »

That first one looked interesting, but it won't work with a Syvecs or Life Racing ECU (S8/F88) as it uses 29 bit addresses on the CANbus whereas the S8/F88 need 11 bit addresses - doesn't look to be any way to set the board to use 11 bit addresses. They do provide a link to the source code, so maybe it would be possible to customise the code and reflash the board (don't have time/inclination to look!).

The second one is AIM-specific and I don't think their CAN protocol is published - although I'm sure it could be reverse engineered.

Syvecs use the phrase "cartel" on Facebook: same applies to AIM. Syvecs really should look up what cartel means - "an association of manufacturers or suppliers with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition".
stevieturbo
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by stevieturbo »

AEM have a 22 channel unit, no 1.33MB though, but it does mention 11bit or 29bit.

And for some reason my browser keeps saying their website is dangerous..isnt that dangerous really lol

https://www.aemelectronics.com/products ... sor-module
TimH
JT Innovations
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:51 pm

Re: Inputs over canbus? Cockpit expander

Post by TimH »

Guess this is missing the point.

S6 is no longer available, and doesn't support CAN inputs anyway
S6I and S6plus already have expander built in, so no other expander-style (1.33MBit/s) inputs possible.
S8 has more inputs to start, and if you do run out there's X10 or MEU as means to get more I/O. Yes, there may be cheaper options, with some work, but if you've already gone S8/F88 - or S12 - a few £100 on an expander is probably neither here not there.

There's not a generic/really cheap solution.
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