More water / meth injection

RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Here is the final set up after testing many iterations and all scenarios, this works tip top 8-)
So no more need for the 3rd party controllers or cables etc, just a pump, jets, high speed valve/s, and flow meter/s to suit the specific set up needs.
You will need a PDU, Dash to compliment your ECU though, which is fine as most have this anyway.
The strategies are complete and more integrated than before which is what you want in a true water injected car ;)

Note: we do run all kinds, from pure RR mechanical to hybrid RR mechanical (controlled through ECU), to Aquamist (partial control through ECU), to now full control through (ECU + Dash + PDU)
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RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Last little while I have been working on the latest generation of Syvecs water injection implementation.

Deviates from the above in that its fully sequential, and is tied in 100% the fuel related strategies of the engine control, this results in lower fluid use and otherwise normal operation regarding delivery (it is not a patched on system you need to work around). You have to use a LR/Syvecs D4/D5/D8 dash and as well as a PDU to get the full benefit but its worth doing. A few tests were conducted and new external software developed to simulate all of the permutations to gain the right set up. Some compatibility in hardware parts and mixtures (basics) to cover off parts that can go together to make it all happen.

Once I get onto the next stage of advancement I will happily put up this when it becomes 'old hat' but for now I can say its what WI should and can be as a fully functional part of the controls running the engine.

WI the final solution http://www.riceracing.com.au/Donmega_Waterinjection.htm
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Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
Water Injection Specialist
RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-9XuyVY1Ds&t=11s



^ Here is a 10 minute or so 'rape' video showing WM50 usage on a mild set up, its easier to put up here than answer multiple times :)
Rough ratio of fuel used V WM50 used from time on load for reference.

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Last edited by RICE RACING on Mon May 10, 2021 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
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RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Current system parts, remainder is 'conventional' and brains is controlled by Syvecs/LR no 3rd party controllers or 'Telephone cables' to be seen :lol:

Image
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RICE RACING
Posts: 344
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Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

System low level and content sensor
Attachments
WM50 voltage.jpg
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RICE RACING
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Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Here is the Aquatec (large pump) being PWM driven directly from the S8 and PDUx3.
Tested from 0% to 100% and works ~3% duty onwards

Image

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Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
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RICE RACING
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

With this latest set up we have control range of:
  • ~20% to 100% (by mass) to main fuel supply adjustment range
  • Full fluid mix ratio control, any percentage of WM allowed 0 to 100%
  • Complete integration in with fuel control strategies in ECU IE: full sequential
There is no longer any dependence on third party controllers or even an external SSR, and the system is more complete than most peoples main fuel supply set ups. basically idiot proof I would say. Is it cheap? no, is it simple to do? no, is it the final solution? for me yes. I have used all types in last 30 years from pneumatic simple to really good third party control system parts and their complete systems, but this is actually the only way to do it in a manner that allows nothing to be a work around or partial implementation. Prior to this had to spark cut only for cars running rather than fuel cut which was not ideal.

For those who want to program it all themselves this is how I do it (you will have to work out your own maths though).
The dash math items have a raft of inputs/outputs from the PDU and ECU for example to show things like if the WM injectors are at fault or pump to name but two items. There is a stack of basics like trip values for the associated sensors in the system which I have not shown to not bore you all !

To do it fully without going mental I also added to the calibration sheet to test run all combinations to allow quick narrowing down of what parts would work to give desired system fit this takes into account basics like injector type/characteristics, scheduling (360 or 720), pressure heads, varying rates of rise to map, ratios of fluids used,

Dash Items: (math and CANtx)
  • fmt (fuel mixture trim)
  • wiFlow (per bank etc)
  • wiFlow (total)
  • wiStatus (water injection status)
  • wm50relP (water injection pressure)
ECU related items: (Fuel, ignition, wastegate etc)
  • CM3* wg*adder (cal select and wiStatus)
  • CM3* wg*adder (wiFlow and map)
  • Injector Split (adjust supply)
  • CM3* fuelMlt (wiFlow rpm)
  • CM3* fuel Mlt (cllTarg tpsMax)
  • CM2* cllTargAdd (wiStatus)
  • CM3 cllTargAdd (rpm fmtSwitch
Ignition sub section:
  • CM3* ignAdd (wiFlow)
Sensors user defined: Combo of math and physical
  • U* (wiStatus)
  • U* (wm50p)
  • U* (fmtSwitch)
  • U* (wm50Lsw)
  • R* (wiFlow1)
  • R* (wiFlow2)
  • R* (wiFlowTotal)
  • R* (wm50relP)
There is more but you get the idea, have fun :)
Last edited by RICE RACING on Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Here are a couple of shots of parts of the calibration sheet that allows different permutations of set up variables to be tested prior to selection.
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Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
Water Injection Specialist
RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

There is more to the sheets than above, some of it is ability to look at pump flows/duty correctly (both main and WM) these obviously interact depending on split and fluid specifics like pressures for example. Very important to be able to this as there is really no way to do this efficiently without a shit load of guess work *good luck* trial error tuna time.

Tied all back in to calibration settings like below: Have ability to quickly change based on driver selection, to max WM flow rates to min (economical) ones. It changes pump PWM and CM fuel corrections automagically :ugeek:

Hopefully gives enough insight for what I would call an advanced WM integration.
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http://www.riceracing.com.au
https://www.youtube.com/riceracingdonmega
Real turbo road cars fast > reliable > durable
Water Injection Specialist
RICE RACING
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:08 am

Re: More water / meth injection

Post by RICE RACING »

Did some more set up work on this, now looking at the three chamber pump head and motor to optimize the current draw and linearity to duty cycle applied, there are some interesting spots of frequency applied to the motor where it is not as happy (big effect on pressure variance). Did over 30 tests over a day from 40Hz to 500Hz some pics below... Have the Grayhill keypad integrated in there too.
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